Greensboro police officer C.M. Schultheis shot and killed James Paschal Jr. yesterday. Allegedly, the reason for the shooting is becuase the suspect refused to show his hands and he also would not stop advancing toward the police officer.
The incident started when Schultheis initiated a traffic stop in the area of Bothwell Avenue. The suspect was allegedly listed as a dangerous person by the Greensboro Police Department at the time of the shooting. He was also involved in a a heated confrontation with officers earlier this year that resluted in Paschal being charged with assault on a police officer. Paschal was born August 9, 1985. He was the son of James Paschal Sr.
James Paschal Sr. was killed when he was shot four times by a Greensboro Police Officer on July 26, 1990, on Afton Drive. Greensboro Police Officer Earl W. Locklear was responding to a domestic dispute when he encountered James Paschal Sr. According to court documents, Paschal attempted to attack Locklear with two butcher knives. The shooting was ruled justifiable by former Guilford County D.A. Jim Kimel.
Paschal Sr. was 29 at the time of his death. The fight that police responded to took place at 3912 Afton Drive. Paschal Sr. was legally drunk and was fighting with his wife and her parents when police arrived. Once police arrived, Paschal hurried into the house and armed himself with two knives. He was told to drop the knives and was sprayed with mace. However, Paschal Sr. continued to advance on the officers.
Paschal Sr. was shot four times after he had raised on of the knives in the air as if he were ready to stab the officers. Paschal Sr. was ordered to drop the knives but he continued his advances. He died after being shot in the chest four times.
Both fahter and son lived short lives that tragically ended when they were shot by Greensboro Police Officers.
Sunday, April 20, 2008
Latest shooting brings more tragedy to tragic story.
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32 comments:
Seems to me there's a generational issue in place. Was yesterday's victim (if you can call him that) egging on the cop? Kind of sounds that way to me. Apparently, he didn't learn from what happened to his sire.
I wonder if the community feels a heavy loss here, most likely not, "a tragic loss" not at all.
The loss of human life can be called "tragic" under most circumstances. When a father and son both meet their fates under similar conditions and by the same means, it is really strange.
But, in both cases, the Officers were doing their jobs....let us not forget that. Who knows if Locklear would have survived that call had he not shot Paschal Sr.? Hindsight is always 20/20. Locklear left law enforcement later after exeriencing personal problems.....he blamed the killing for these problems. Those famaliar with Locklear can debate these problems.
As for the Officer shooting Paschal Jr.,again, how was he to know whether or not the suspect was armed? Wait and maybe find out the hard way? When a man has made and enhanced his reputation as a bad ass and trouble maker and police resister, and he tells you he wants to do you harm, what are you to do? Both Officers did what any reasonble person would do.
Don't they make taser guns these days? It seem to me that one bullett would have been enough to get the point accross rather the 6 that were given to Paschal Jr. This s a tragic loss to the community! Just think if this were someone that you knew. Many people read what has happened but don't really know what actually took place. Don't judge unless you know!
To the last anon., what if the suspect did not cease his progress towards the officer after one or two shots? This ain't TV where guys fly across the screen or fall after one shot always. If the suspect did not stop what the officer felt was an sure attack, the officer is justified and if fact trained to keep firing until the threat stops. Maybe it takes 2 shots, maybe 10. Not saying drugs were involved here, but suspects on hard narcotic drugs have been known to take multitple shots without going down. See the Miami- Dade bankrobbers from 1986 that the FBI tried to take down. Each of these subjects toook over 10 hits from handguns before they stopped killing agents. One took multiple hits from 00 buck and kept fighting.
A police officer has every right to defend himself against potentially violent people. Period. Doesn't matter how many bullets were fired; we weren't there, so we don't know what the circumstances were, just like the last anon said. If you disobey the law, you pay the consequences. My sympathy is with the family who lost both a father and a son, but also with the officer, whose life is also forever changed.
As I was in Alabama over the weekend I've no way to know anything more about this shooting than what Ben has posted but I was taught a long time ago that when you shoot a man you keep shooting until he falls, turns to run away or you run out of bullets...
As others said before me, this ain't television.
Since when is it tragic when two people put another persons life in danger? Why shouldn't the police shoot to kill when a man armed with two knives approaches? If we begin to second guess them, then they will do the same. Tragic would be a police officer dying because he thought the community wouldn't support them if they had to make the horrible choice of going home in a box, or going home in one piece.
its about time we stat to do the right thing with these punks. It dont matter if there white black green purple or blue they are violent thugs and if they want to try to be a tough guyand put their hands on the police then use deadly force without a doubt.
Police are trined to shoot to stop not shoot to kill. Shoot to stop may take one bulet it may take ten and it may result in someone being killed.
Why is it when a black man is killed by the police in a self defense situation the black community is in an uproar, however, they remain silent and passive about the daily black on black crime within their community?
there are 3 citations listed for a James Paschal Jr. If hes dead, why do they still list the charges?? strange...
To the person who mentioned tasers...Tasers are an incredible tool. They work well- unfortunately, the thugs out there have quickly discovered how to beat them. The latest thug "fashion" trend, the heavy puffy coat, worn any time of year, will more often than not stop those projectiles. Just something else for the officer to consider in his split second to make a decision.
I understand the circumstances. I also understand that Police Officers put their lives on the line. I feel that their are other ways to bring down a criminal other than killing them. With the Father a knife....com on people. Shoot him in the arms or something you do not have to kill him. For the soon...shoot him in the shoulder. There are ways to get around than to killing a person. I know that everyone has their own opinion about things and that is perfectly fine. Please try not to be so harsh. I am sure their are family members who are reading your comments and all though the Father and the Son were in the wrong for doing what they did and the family could agree with them being wrong, it is not fair to them to have lost another family member and have to read your harsh judgement when you do not know them like that. Being apart of that family I would appreciate it if you only stick to the facts. Thank you!
I understand the circumstances. I also understand that Police Officers put their lives on the line. I feel that their are other ways to bring down a criminal other than killing them. With the Father a knife....come on people. Shoot him in the arms I am sure that would have knocked the knives out of his hands and then bum rush him like all officers do criminals; you do not have to kill him. For the Son...shoot him in the shoulder. There are ways to get around than to killing a person. I know that everyone has their own opinion about things and that is perfectly fine. Please try not to be so harsh. I am sure their are family members who are reading your comments and all though the Father and the Son were in the wrong for doing what they did and the family could agree with them being wrong, it is not fair to them to have lost another family member and have to read your harsh judgement when you do not know them like that. Being real close to that family I would appreciate it if you only stick to the facts. Thank you!
The amazing thing is you people have no idea about James or the situation. I guess that's the point of blogging. Make up your mind, and speak to it as though its fact. James is a person, with a really big family, that is hurting right now. The family is in an uproar because we know the situation. The black community is in an uproar because this situation was shady just like many others. And as a community we are in an uproar about black on black crime. White people just don't show it on the news! Live a day in the life of a successful black man. Whenever a police officer sees you in your casual attire, he speaks to you with his hand on his gun. When you have a criminal record he speaks to you with his pistol drawn. When you are a white man, you don't have to suffer this, cops talk to you like you are a buddy.
Don't prejudge this situation. Racism is alive and well in the usa, even if its as little as a cop being afraid of an unarmed black man, and shoots prematurely! Don't make assumptions, give your opinion on what you may think may happen, but don't make assumptions. Because you won't recant your "facts" once the truth is known.
To the last anon comment, good points made in your post. We had this conversation about race a few weeks ago at work. About 7 of us 4 whites and 3 blacks, the whites seem to believe that rasicm does not still exist. The blacks tried to explain to them that it does, but it is just not a obivious as it was in the past. My dad always taught me don't judge another man until you walk in his shoes. You can have racism on both ends black and white being racist. I will not say what my occupation is, but I do have a close working relationship with the police department and some not all seem to have some suspect racial tendencies. The reason, I say that is the way that they treat people of different races on calls. I have witnessed on several calls officers being disrepectful to black males when they were the victims. They take a total different approach to the situation if it is a white male. No one will really know what happened on this call except for the officer. This is a sad situation for the families of both the victim and officer. People always talk about why to leaders of the black community make so much of an uproar about situations like these, it is because they do not want the injustices to continue to go unnoticed. For there is a problem, which needs to be addressed not only in the city, but america as a whole. Yes, there is a problem with black on black crime, there is also a problem with the police taking the law (being the judge and jury) into there own hands and being overly aggressive.
To the person who suggested shooting the suspect in the arm- show me one, just ONE police department in the country that teaches their officers to shoot it the extremities rather than center mass. You will not find it friend. Neither will you find one that teaches its officers to let the bad guy get close enough to hurt them before making the toughest decision in his/her life. Use a Taser? Sure. but what if the second it takes to realize you've missed, or that the probes didn't penetrate, costs you your life? And it all comes down to seconds, really. Action is faster than reaction, studies have shown. You wanna second guess? In your job, if you make a bad decision, you get talked to, yelled at, demoted, maybe even fired. In police work, people can die.
Here's the real question. When Mr. Paschal made the decision to confront that cop, to come at him with his hands in his pockets, refusing to follow orders, knowing full well what the consequences could be, what do you suppose his intentions were? To hurt a police officer? To kill him? To die a martyr? What nobel deed do imagine Mr. Paschal intended to do? What good, for any involved, for the families involved, for the lives involved, could come of it? If you can ever answer me that, maybe, just maybe, I will consider what you have to say. Because all I see is a man who was asking for a cop to end his life for him.
For the comment above I can say this, what if the police officer shot James Paschal Jr. and missed? There would still be a chance of him getting hurt and I agree with the comment above talking about racism. Everyone who posted a comment in favor of the officer shooting Paschal I am sure has a little bit of racism in their blood. They would rather shoot a black man who they think is a thug by the way they dressed than to find other ways around it. Just because young black men dress a certain way, you want to label him a thug. Every white guy I see with tight gap or tight Abercrombie Jeans and t-shirts on I do not assume he is gay. I am pretty sure if I made that assumption you would call me racisit wouldn't you? I think you would. I have a question the Bible says thou shalt not kill. There are always ways around violence. I am sure that is what you teach your kids if you have any. What is the difference here. I am sure the police academy has trained police officers negotiate before shooting. They just see a young black man label him and then shoot him.
To the anon above, you sound like an intelligent and good natured person, but do most people really think that the officer had that many options? I think most people would have a hard time calling me a racist, especially since some of my closest friends are black and some hispanic. I'm not saying that the shooting was justified or it wasn't, because I don't know the facts of the case. However, if the shooting was justified so is his death. One thing I feel confident in though, if Mr. Paschal would have remained in is car or at the very least presented his hands to the officer and complied with his instructions, he would be alive today. LEO's aren't trained to wound or shoot arms and legs, they are trained to stop the threat. You're exactly right, the bible does say "thou shall not kill" so I hope you are one of the few that are asking for a change in our court system. One that continually returns violent offenders to the street, some with murder convictions.
To the above I can appreciate your comments
Ben, you scooped the N&R by 48 hours on this father/son story and they didn't even give you credit in their article published today:
http://tinyurl.com/5ejpyx
To the person who called me a little bit racist- you sir are a little bit clueless. Maybe a lot bit. Racism never entered into my statements at all. A person in California reading my post would have no idea what color skin either the "victim" or the police officer had. No sir, you added the racism, all by yourself. I provided facts, you provided speculation and a lack of knowledge of the daily issues and challenges faced by today's police officers.
Oh, and by the way, JAMES PASCHAL WAS A FUCKING THUG! Wake the fuck up.
To the poster who put in his/her post that some of his/her best friends were black and hispanic can I give you a little bit of advice. No pun intended, put don't tell anyone black that because they will laugh at you. The reason being, that is the first thing that a racist says when they are accused of being a racist. Oh, I'm not racist some of my best friends are black. Have you every had them over to your house for a cookout, would you allow them to spend the night at your house, if you cannot answer yes to those two questions, then your probably a REDNECK!
THERES NO TIME TO NEGOTIATE WHEN THE SUSPECT IS ADVANCING ON YOU, ESPECIALLY IF HE'S GOT A HAND HIS POCKET. YOU BASICALLY WANT THE OFFICER TO PLEAD FOR HIS LIFE WHILE THE SUSPECT ADVANCES. "WAIT, PLEASE DONT COME ANY CLOSER. IM GONNA SHOOT YOU BECAUSE YOUR NOT OBEYING MY COMMANDS AND I CANT SEE WHATS IN YOUR HAND!" "I SWEAR I WILL SHOOT YOU!"..............AHHHHH NO. THAT IS NOT A TIME TO BE NEGOTIATING!!!! YOU GIVE THEM COMMANDS, THEY OBEY OR YOU USE FORCE TO GAIN COMPLIANCE. IN THIS CASE THE OFFICER FELT HIS LIFE WAS IN DANGER SO HE USED DEADLY FORCE.
NORTH CAROLINA GENERAL STATUTE 15A-401(D)(2)
Use of Force in Arrest. –
(1) Subject to the provisions of subdivision (2), a law‑enforcement officer is justified in using force upon another person when and to the extent that he reasonably believes it necessary:
a. To prevent the escape from custody or to effect an arrest of a person who he reasonably believes has committed a criminal offense, unless he knows that the arrest is unauthorized; or
b. To defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of physical force while effecting or attempting to effect an arrest or while preventing or attempting to prevent an escape.
(2) A law‑enforcement officer is justified in using deadly physical force upon another person for a purpose specified in subdivision (1) of this subsection only when it is or appears to be reasonably necessary thereby:
a. To defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of deadly physical force;
b. To effect an arrest or to prevent the escape from custody of a person who he reasonably believes is attempting to escape by means of a deadly weapon, or who by his conduct or any other means indicates that he presents an imminent threat of death or serious physical injury to others unless apprehended without delay; or
c. To prevent the escape of a person from custody imposed upon him as a result of conviction for a felony.
Nothing in this subdivision constitutes justification for willful, malicious or criminally negligent conduct by any person which injures or endangers any person or property, nor shall it be construed to excuse or justify the use of unreasonable or excessive force.
SOUNDS LIKE HE WAS JUSTIFIED TO ME...
To the Anonymous posting at Tuesday, April 22, 2008 2:19:00 PM...I can honestly see exactly where you are coming from about how some racists claim exactly that. I've seen it, you've seen it, everyone has seen it. The problem is this...the racist won't admit it. Just to answer your questions/claims though are we go. Not only have those friends been over to the house multiple times, they have attended birthday parties for my two children for several years now, attended get togethers at our house and us to theirs, etc. Although they have never spent the night at our house, nor have we at theirs, I have no doubt that they would welcome us as we would them. The only thing that surprises me about your comment is your ending. To end it in such a manner makes me wonder where you stand?
To the post above, I am glad that there are people out there like you who don't see color. You gave the answer to my response. The answer that I will give you is my wife is white, so where does that make me stand? For the past 15 years that we have been married we have had to deal with rasicm. So, I think you know where I stand now.
1 less nigger we gotta worry about in these parts.
Woooooooow...
What a racist motherfucker..
Ben, Ben,BEN, BEN, where are you.
Have you gotten a job.
I can't do with my Ben. Ben where forth are you????
You were so good for so long. Come back to us Ben.
Just because we get a bit snide with you once and a while is no reason to hide.
COME BACK BENNIE>
Look at the nitwit who posted a comment about a Redneck.
He is absolutly clueless as to what a true Redneck was.
He is not white he is a hard working individual who takes care of his family in the poorest of conditions. uSUALLY NOT A RUN AWAY FATHER.
SO THERE STUPID.
~ Rest in peace James Paschal Jr ~
Karma is real. What goes around, comes back around times ten. This was a senseless crime. three people know the truth .. the officer, you, and I. ~
Justice will be served
I LOVE YOU ALWAYS.
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